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 Dr. Mirkin's Fitness and Health Forum : Health Issues, Diseases and Conditions : Diabetes - Control and Prevention
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Mrs.W2K
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Quote Mrs.W2K Replybullet Topic: Metformin not working
    Posted: 02 Sep 2006 at 10:16am
My poor husband is not seeing any benefit from Metfartin - oops, I mean Metformin XR 1000mg once per day as of the two weeks he has been taking it.

Age 45, 230 lbs., exercises regularly, consumes 1500 calories per day.  That's right, you heard right, 1500 calories per day of mainly protein plus vegetables and a little oatmeal, (no simple carbs. trust me on this) and the weight is hardly budging.  How in the world can this man's body maintain its weight on 1500 to maybe sometimes 2000 calories per day?  And he's a muscular guy, believe me!  With considerable belly fat, too (of course, that's the whole problem) but otherwise, the muscles of a pro football player (the doctor even declared this in amazement - his leg muscles alone surpass the sum total of everyone else's in our six-person household.) 

My complaint, though, is that the blood glucose is hardly budging.  A few lows not seen before (as low as 83 at some times, nothing much below 100 in the prior two months since his own self-discovery of this condition, so that has to be an effect of the Metformin, but its not quite doing the job other than that.)

A visit to the doctor for just about the first time ever in his adult life, two weeks ago, after my smart husband caught on that he had diabetes (he bought his own monitor) prompted this Rx.  We've given the Metformin two weeks, though, and it's the same old same-old with the blood glucose:  largely  unexplained rises to 180 or even over 200 at some times, other times only 120 or 110 after eating identical meals, many times 140-160 after eating little rabbit-food meals, and the same old lousy AM readings of 110 or 115 every single freaking day with the occasional lousier inexplicable 135, like today.  As a matter of fact, those lousy 130+ AM readings are increasing in frequency.

A1C of 6.1.  That's down from 7.0 a few weeks before that.  Note, though, that both of these readings came BEFORE starting the Metformin (first reading was done at home with purchased kit and second done per dr's lab slip prior to first doctor visit.)  So we don't know if the A1C has changed yet since starting Metformin; two weeks seems too often to test but note that  it doesn't take 3 months to change as is popularly believed; quick changes can be seen relfecting better glucose control in the few days/weeks prior to the test.  That's because results are heavily weighted toward the most recent past.

Anyway, doctor said he'd add an injectable (no doubt Byetta) if no relief through the Metformin.  This may be too expensive to afford via our cheapa$$ insurance.

Just thought I'd share.  Any comments are welcome.  How maddening for my husband to be doing everything right and see no change on the scale or the blood glucose.  To be fair, he has lost 15 lbs. or so since APRIL and has reduced body fat; that's indisputable and obvious to those who know him, but it's been so SLOW despite eating like a total saint.  I, his female and slim wife, would fall over and faint from hunger if I stuck to his diet.
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MrW2K
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Quote MrW2K Replybullet Posted: 02 Sep 2006 at 10:32am
Yeah - what she said pretty much covers it. I have been eating less than a bird for the last 3 months and weight won't budge. Exercise just about every day. It's a struggle to keep blood sugar under 150 even with the Metfartin. It's very discouraging. Sometimes I just feel like saying "F*** it" and getting one of those Quad stackers from Burger King, but I keep telling myself I will eventually see some weight loss.
Any advice or comments appreciated.




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Quote Zoolander Replybullet Posted: 02 Sep 2006 at 3:24pm
I weighed 280Ibs in January06. I am now 174Ibs. Have you read Atkins book? It's really explains well how the body uses food and the science behind it. My doctor wanted to put me on the Metforman, but he had not done any testing on me. Follow your doctors advice on this , if he's done the testing.
I started with 35 carbs a day. 1800 calories from protein only! You have to totally stop eating bread, pasta, potatoes, pop, and any other high carb foods. I stopped loosing weight at about 230Ibs. I dropped my carbs to almost zero then. The weight just came flying off. If that does not work for you,  Atkins has some other ways to get you loosing. Read the his book like a Bible. Use a high liter to mark all the best stuff. My protein choice is chicken. I eat 2 meals a day. At least 3 meals is usually recommended. I eat 2 because its a larger portion and makes me feel more satisfied. You must use ground flax(Flax meal). Store it in the fridge. You can grind flax in the bender or buy it at the  heath food store already ground. 3 table spoons before each meal mixed with warm water. If you don't use it, you'll get constipation and severe abdominal cramping.
Do not use psyllium husks as recommended in Atkins book. It is awful stuff. PLEASE READ ATKINS BOOK. CONSULT YOR DOCTOR. HE'LL PROBABLY SAY ATKINS IS A QUACK. TELL YOUR DOCTOR TO WORK WITH YOU ON THIS.  YOUR DOCTOR CAN MONITER YOUR HEALTH WHILE YOUR ON THE LOW CARB DIET. Do this for you and your health. Your worth it!
Atkins low carb diet will not kill you. Your diabetic condition is riping your body to pieces! As a benefit on Atkins your good cholesterol will go up and bad down. Sugar levels should drop almost immediately. The proof is in the pudding. And I'm the pudding! Good luck. With the love and support of your wife and your will power, you'll succeed!

CARBOHYDRATES ARE THE ENEMY! EAT IN MODERATION.
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Zoolander
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Quote Zoolander Replybullet Posted: 03 Sep 2006 at 6:01am
Follow up: There are certain medical tests that you need to get. If you have not already had them. Consult your doctor. A lot of people that are on there way to becoming diabetic or that are diabetic keep eating the high carb foods. They use the Metformin or insulin etc and just keep chowing down on the bad foods. Diabetes's can lead to loss of limbs, blindness nerve damage and damage to your organs! Nerve damage begins usually in the feet. You'll feel numbness and loss of felling in feet. Because of this feet are susceptible to infection and worse! All my symptoms have been reversed. I had numbness in feet, yeast infection groin area that would not go away previously (treated by Doctor over a 2 year period). I had rash on my lower neck area all the time. I  had a bad stomach for 15 years. The drugs that I was using for my stomach burning where barely working  All cured now with the change of diet. I'm not a Doctor. Do your research and don't let the Doctors walk all over you. Take charge of your life.

CARBOHYDRATES ARE THE ENEMY! EAT IN MODERATION.
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Mrs.W2K
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Quote Mrs.W2K Replybullet Posted: 03 Sep 2006 at 11:14pm
In no way is he letting doctors walk all over him, but thanks.  The doctor is really on top of things, and he gives my husband credit for being on top of things first (bringing in a blood glucose log for two months' prior to his first visit - how many patients do that?  And an A1C result, too.)

We also understand about carbs and have been limiting them sharply but not eliminating them.  Also understand about better carbs vs. worse carbs.  Thanks for your response.  Nerve damage became evident 6 months or more ago, (numbness, tingling in feet) with a return of feeling to feet just in the last few weeks.  He's doing all he can but the metformin just isn't boosting the blood sugar downward.  Today's food was mostly protein; about four servings of whole grains in there (mostly early in the day), and blood glucose still at 158, even with hours of exercise.  This was after a terrible morning fasting reading of 135 and a reading post-meal and post-exercise (one of two exercise sessions) of 105.  Then after eating only a modest amount of protein and several miles worth of hiking - 158?!?!?!  Now you understand the reason for the Metformin, and you're probably right that some people take it and chow down on Ho-Hos, but that's not the situation here.  Thanks for your support and encouragement, though; your story is inspirational!
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Quote Kathy Replybullet Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 10:40am
Please read "Eat to Live" by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. You can visit his website at drfuhrman.com.  He champions a plant-based diet. It is pretty easy to follow. I have done so for a year now and have lost weight and brought my cholesterol down without medication. Diabetes runs rampant in my family. Please don't do Atkins. It is my opinion that it is harmful in the long run.
All the best to you.
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Quote Paulmarse Replybullet Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 9:26pm
What kind of chicken do you eat? How do you prepare the chicken? Anyone's receipe is welcome   >)))))))">... >)))))))">... >)))))))">.... >)))))))">... >)))))))">...
I like Tysons Buffalo Strips but Dr Mirkin would kill me if I told him.
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Mrs.W2K
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Quote Mrs.W2K Replybullet Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 12:13pm
I appreciate the input of you guys, but trust me, the type or amount of food eaten is not the issue in this case.  A !@#$-ed up liver is.

By the way, don't misunderstand me and think I'm saying that diet is not important.  It is very important.  It goes a long way toward preventing and alleviating diabetes.  And he's made remarkable improvements already.  His bloodwork turned out to be remarkable (on the healthy side - did you expect high cholesterol, triclycerides, plaque?  Nope, none of the above, and he even had an "ideal " LDL number, BUT close inspection of the LDL by advanced lipid studies showed a slightly-higher-than-ideal particle size, which is being addressed with an aggressive approach via Tricor.)  Anyway, I'm saying that he's already made the dietary modifications that would make a big difference, and in his case a shortcut is needed, unless he wants to take three years to lose 40 lbs. (if he can even do it) and that doesn't seem very appealing.

So... Metformin XR was increased to 1500 mg. per day.  A few numbers like 89 have been seen, and some 105-type numbers, also.  (these are not fasting AM numbers.  THe fasting AM number is still variable and not impressive.)

So it looks tentatively as if improvement may be on the way.  And it's only been 2 days since upping the dosage.  Maybe in a few more days, true improvement will be seen.  I just read the Metformin article referenced in the e-mail newsletter.  Thanks for covering that issue, Dr. Mirkin.  My husband does not, by the way, have polycystic ovaries.

(ba-dum-bum.  Silly attempt at a joke that isn't all that funny.)


Edited by Mrs.W2K - 07 Sep 2006 at 12:24pm
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aldick
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Quote aldick Replybullet Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 5:52pm
Have you checked to make sure that the meter is reading properly.  Apparently only about two models on the market are highly accurate.

allen
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Quote MargaretDian Replybullet Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 8:13pm
Someday we will have a paradigm shift in medical thinking.  I believe that my diabetes that showed up in my 50's was a late to show up birth defect from my dad's exposures in WWII from bomb fumes.  The chemical that causes diabetes is very widespread & I have had direct and second hand exposures to it also:  2-butoxyethanol.
 
Diabetes should be looked at as a side effect of this chemical exposure.  It can cause blood sugar and various hormones to go high or low.  Avoid 2-butoxyethanol exposures AND have good nutrition. 
 
I think glyconutrient food supplements will help
 
Yes I have belly fat (Syndrome X); recent high bad cholesterol.  Thankfully my blood pressure decided to go on the low side, or I would be in bad shape
 
I think we are dealing with autoimmune metabolic issues.
 
I have chosen not to be concerned about blood sugar ... and it is not diabetes that causes wounds not to heal, kidney failure, liver failure, eye sight and nerve problems.  It is exposure to 2-butoxyethanol that causes these AND ... many times ... causes diabetes
 
 
I have been looking into this chemical exposure & recognize it's pattern.
 
I do not choose to mess with my liver to keep my blood sugar down, when that is not the primary issue.  The chemical that causes the blood sugar to go sky-high is the chemical that will harm my liver, or cause soft tissue tumors ... or ... or ... or
 
Overweight?  Maybe it's not your fault
 
I suspect this chemical for the real cause of President FDR's death ... for President Eisenhower's Crohn's and explosive diarrhea (I have that, too)... for harm to many other prominent people ... especially those from WWII nations
 
Strong exposure looks like the flu
 
and has these CFIDS symptoms if you get too much
 
I don't have enough exposure to have 'the fatigue' but I suspect that if I had a copy of my dad's medical records, he would have this & more.  (Check blood info manually in case there is something immature about the red blood cells ... & for accurate info on liver and white blood cell counts)
 
I suspect this chemical is also the cause of 'gulf war syndrome' and the real chemical of harm for the Vietnam and Korean vets.  We need to look at the big picture.  How are these groups alike?
 
 
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Edited by MargaretDian - 07 Sep 2006 at 9:18pm
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